1 05 2012
TL (14:45:00) :

Well said and points well taken. While I support Kerodin and his initiative, I fear that we will not get that far before action is thrust upon us and the energy to attend is expended elsewhere.

1 05 2012
Tom Baugh (15:08:47) :

Good points all around Dio. And you are on the nose about the sore point in my presentation. My trip report to the GA PATCON discussed my insufficient explanation (I will be suitably flogged with a wet stripper at the next GA PATCON), and yes, I think we all agree that the non-manipulative route is best. Poor choice of words on my part, and there were some pieces of the puzzle I left out when paring four hours of material down to one.

Here’s some background info (much more will be on the university site) to better explain what we have in mind. First, traffic analysis from various sources teaches us that interest increases greatly when there is a lively debate on a given topic. This kind of debate is a GOOD THING. Where it turns bad is when it turns into a heated chair slingin’ Jerry Springer fight. While banging out the details of this, we started calling the entire debate concept Jerry Springer Moments as a mental shortcut. I used this term without fully explaining what it means.

Does this mean we have to script debates? Of course not. When you and I discuss issue X, and I take position A while you take position B, then we can have an open and honest discussion about it. Others can participate and give their own opinions. No script required, and any lurkers can see both sides, then make their own decisions about what works best for them and what direction they want to head from there.

An unfortunate consequence about blogging is that someone showing up today has missed a discussion we had about issue X a month ago. So, as current events roll around bringing issue X to the forefront, then there is nothing wrong with having a new discussion about our positions. Everyone wins, especially the newbie lurkers who probably haven’t thought about those issues or positions much, if at all.

This kind of repeated debate happens anyway; you couldn’t stop it if you tried. But, while old-timers see it as more of an ad-nauseum kind of thing, to newbies it is crisp and refreshing. We want to keep the crisp and refreshing part, knowing all the while that we are educating others, while discarding the chair slinging.

Regarding the “we don’t have enough time” argument, what do you say to a customer who tells you there isn’t enough time to make a safety-critical weld correctly? Evolution kicks in at some point, especially when it is the welder whose safety is at risk.


1 05 2012
AlanD (18:35:02) :

Well said DIO! And thank you for this post. As you know I have NOT attended any of these functions (however I was considering going to China’s) while watching the dialog. I am not ready to join in at this point in time and will not when manipulation or coercion is detected.

There may not be enough time however I will begin local. I will start by speaking more freely, questioning openly and try to get the like minded here together. I aim to misbehave however I will calculate risk on my own and go it alone if I have to. I will not intentionally harm or manipulate anyone that is not an immediate threat. I will spread the word as I am able, I will not risk my principles, values or integrity. These are things that they may liable however they can not take them from me or those who know me. I will not throw them away after keeping them sacred to myself for 50 years.

I am sure I do not understand the full scope of this conversation however if you want recruits manipulation is not the way. I wish to learn more and meet like minded individuals. Prepping and planing is necessary for me however sticking my neck out to early is not in my plan.

I was in your AO today however I could not contact you as I had others with me (The Mexican Restaurant is still excellent). I will still try to meet you if I can or any you know in my AO on an individual or small group basis. My reason for this comment is to give the thoughts of a fence sitter and to thank you for expressing the concerns I share with you.

1 05 2012
Craig Cavanaugh (19:09:28) :

Excellent points Dio. Suicide missions are for 8th century camel shaggers, we’re much smarter than that. Tom, thanks for the clarification. Dio and I discussed all of LS on the phone. As to “we don’t have enough time” thing, your point is valid. There is always time to do something right, especially if it makes the difference between the ship sinking or swimming…

1 05 2012
Harry Steele (19:37:28) :

You have an 100% WRONG idea of what “manipulation” was in regards to this issue… or why it is even now being discussed…

Since you werent there, perhaps you should not talk about that which you do not know about?

Let me assure you, AND those that were there, even the ones who went off about it at the summit, IT IS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE IMAGINED IT TO BE…….

My advice is top wipe your mind of this and get on with fighting for liberty instead of going off on something you think might have happened somewhere you werent even present at….

1 05 2012
Craig Cavanaugh (20:37:10) :

If I may interject, having not been there myself… From what I gather, this is essentially about “marketing”. And marketing is a form of manipulation, which I generally despise. Granted, I recognize that I am among a very small minority in this regard, but I recognize the possible “value” in marketing. Most folks are unthinking zombies who are highly susceptible to marketing ploys, and such an approach could possibly swing some of them our way. BUT…. And that’s a big “but”. Do we really want these “swingers” amongst us? They would be just as easily swayed by propaganda from the PTB, methinks. Marketing appeals to weak minds, and weak minds are not going to be beneficial to our cause.

Just my interpretation. I will not be offended if you counter my thoughts. Like you said, I wasn’t there.

1 05 2012
AlanD (20:50:19) :

Thanks Craig! I guess I still do not understand and I am weary of trying. I shall refrain from further posts and comments.

1 05 2012
Craig Cavanaugh (21:33:32) :

Alan, that was directed at Harry and not you. What I meant is that some folks take offense to being manipulated (like you mentioned). Hence the “marketing” analogy. It’s like some of those retarded commercials you see, made on a fourth grade level. They appeal to pure emotion (think Sally Struthers and the “feed the starving pygmies” commercials she used to do) and defy all logic. Like “send the pygmies some seed” instead of sending your money to some damned bureaucracy which will skim 80% off the top for “administrative costs” and only send 20% of your donation to the starving pygmies… What I mean is, there are folks who see through shenanigans like that and get pissed off when they see them. I think you are one of those people, and you’re absolutely right in thinking that way. Does that make sense?

1 05 2012
AlanD (19:52:56) :

Taken in context with Sam’s post at which part of this is directed is all I have to go on. I WAS NOT THERE and stated as much. I may be wrong (probably am) however HTH am I supposed to know! Was this not the point of DIO’s post (“IT HAS TO GET MUCH WORSE BEFORE WE WILL HAVE THE MEANS TO REALLY RECRUIT OUR ARMY!”). Thank you for the explanation on why I was wrong and what “IT IS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE IMAGINED IT TO BE…….” is. Your kind words to help us understand were appreciated!!!!!

1 05 2012
Toaster802 (20:42:35) :

“Life is short, live each day like it is your last. That is why you never hear me complain. I am thankful to have a roof over my head and hot and cold water. I keep it simple and that way I appreciate things more. It’s sad to see these men go but I know one day we will all meet on the other side in what I call ‘Warrior Heaven’. Even the good book makes it a point to say that –

‘. . . there is no greater love that a man will lay down his life for a friend.’

We are all certain to meet on the Other Side because men like those who went before are rewarded for their service and sacrifice to freedom.”

Don’t know who wrote it, but sounds damn good to me.

Now. all we have to do is get the normal people to wake the fuck up.

Did I mention I like a challenge?

1 05 2012
Toaster802 (21:05:19) :

Bacon’s Rebellion

For masses of men to turn from their daily lives to hurl themselves against existing habits and the extant might of a ruling government requires an accumulation of significant grievances and tensions. No revolution begins in a day and on arbitrary whim. The grievances of important numbers of people against the state pile up, accumulate, form an extremely dry forest waiting for a spark to ignite the conflagration. That spark is the “crisis situation,” which may be intrinsically minor or only distantly related to the basic grievances; but it provides the catalyst, the emotional impetus for the revolution to begin.

Good reading. Just sayin’.

1 05 2012
Harry Steele (21:30:51) :

I was just trying to get it across that it was a simple misunderstanding of the meaning of a word, nothing else…… That it is still being discussed is proof of our unwillingness to see the bigger issues.. We need to STOP with this bullcrap or we will NEVER get off the porch.

I will now try to explain what happened, and why it should NOT be an issue….

Tom simply meant ( and yes, the way he said it during his presentation, it came across as much different) is that WHEN one of us comments on someones blog when we disagree on something said/blogged, we need to stop the argument before it goes too far…. Otherwise we will chase people away. Yet, at the same time, it is actually a good thing to bring up our take on the subject, as it can lead those (NOT MANIPULATE them) to our view on the particular issue, and they can follow us to other sites that may suit their particular skills/thoughts better….

We all need realize that we are on the same team, and that even though we have some differences in opinion, we should USE that difference of opinion we have to possibly draw those disposed to one side of one of our “issues” we have with each other to our own websites, where they would feel more comfortable. We all have roles we are best suited for….. if someone is on the fence because of one particular “nit-pick” of an issue, we can use reasoned discussions (instead of what happens sometimes now, how we alienate those on the fence by our bickering too far/arguing too much until it becomes personal and we become enemies…, and we end up driving off those who could be assets to our cause/freedom)

What Tom meant was we should STOP going so far, and realize we are on the same side for the most part, and that we should only argue to a certain point, and when we do that, the fence sitter that agreed with point “A” can go visit point “A”‘ type blogs, and fit in there…. Instead of being chased off by our bickering…

Now that I have repeated myself by explaining it 3 different ways, I hope my thoughts finally got out to where they can be understood….

1 05 2012
Craig Cavanaugh (21:38:16) :

I understand exactly what Tom meant (having read his writings for years now), and I can understand why some might take exception to what he said. He clarified it here, and I’m good with it. No problem. But I can see where some might have a problem with it. Need to get the clarification out to the group who did have a problem. BUT, I will still say that having a bunch of easily swayed sheep “in the fold” is not a good thing. Does that make sense?

1 05 2012
wonderdawg (21:48:03) :

Good post and comments….it is always a learning event to read the different blogs…one suggestion from an ignorant ole guy about some of the terms and initials used here and other places….Im sure I’m not the only one finding myself wishing I knew for sure what some of initials meant (LMI’s) in Dio’s post for example….4GW maybe another….I’ve been actively reading several of the blogs for over a couple years and still have trouble relating to some subject initials…I’m sure newer lurkers and possibly future tribemens may have the same problem as myself….know it could be redundant for most, but would help in knowing what you are referring to…Thanks

1 05 2012
Kerodin (22:04:56) :

Dio, There is no potential for a divisive outcome. I said what I had to say and that was the end of it. You’ll remember I said “Do what you want, just leave me the hell out of it.” So, no worries. It is over on my end.

As to my DC Congress, I have no intention of forgetting the Gun Show tour for spreading the Brand. That is too good of a venue for meeting our natural allies and introducing them to our part of the Liberty Movement. In fact, I have moved up the start date and will hit a show in the next 2 weeks.

The DC Congress is nothing more than me standing up in public and telling TPTB that I am done tolerating unconstitutional behavior. It is not a call to arms. It is not a call for a III Army to start throwing punches. Indeed, the message will be presented with empty holsters to make a very deliberate political point. The event will put the III on the radar, and earn national MSM coverage, that is the goal and it will happen. When it does, those disgruntled NRA & real Tea Party folks will know where to find us, and it won’t cost us a dime in advertising.

Anyone who wishes to be there is welcome, but I have no intention of pushing TPTB into a corner. And if anyone thinks that time period is too dangerous to be away from their AO, I completely get it. This is my gig, and I won’t think less of anyone who chooses not to be there.

So, thank you for stepping in stating your position. You are a strong Patriot and you served your Tribe well as a representative.


1 05 2012
Harry Steele (22:18:13) :

Craig, initially “getting them in the fold” instead of chasing them off never to be seen again is better, wouldnt you agree?

Once we get them to stick around, we could then educate them further… There are MANY people who are just now starting to wake up in this very late hour…. We need to let them know we are not as crazy as they have been led to believe, and that they CAN do something about this out of control govt….

We can use these discussions to lead them (not manipulate) to where they can contribute the most, where they fit in the best… whether they would be best suited as a spokesperson/political or logistical side, or as in my case, the militia aspect of our “fight”…

We need each other, now more than ever…. To lose anyone that could be valuable to our “cause” is to be avoided as much as possible. Especially if it is over a stupid thing like the definition of a word…. Or a “perceived” slight that was not intentional in the first place.

1 05 2012
Craig Cavanaugh (22:45:25) :

Harry, there is merit in that thought. BUT, I would say simple presentation of the truth is far better than any “marketing” ploy. Thinking individuals will naturally gravitate our way, much as I did years ago. It will take “real life” crashing down on their asses to produce true “converts”, in my opinion. Marketing suckers will simply be fair weather “patriots” until things turn ugly. We have enough of those amongst us already with the “frat boys”. Unlike that bunch, I am ready and willing to fight and die for what I believe in. Have been for years. The “Johnny come latelys”, well they got something to prove… Being a militia man yourself, you know what I mean.

1 05 2012
China (22:37:13) :

Dio and AlanD. Dio you speak your mind well and you obviously think things through.

AlanD I have missed much of these conversations. The Hoosier Patcom is open to anyone,those just begging Patriotism to the hardcore. However there will be no coercion Period. Merely like minded folks getting together and sharing ideas.

Really to me more of getting to meet others in our areas.And from other areas,may come a day we need to join as one,I would like to know who I am backing or is backing me!

We will not solve Americas problems in 1 or 2 meetings. But we can meet others,find those who think like we do,find who we can count on when the SHTF. I would like to meet any and all of you,if however its not for you at this time, cool. Everything in its time! WE all have much to learn,much to do.

Gentlemen everyone I have heard speak is a Patriot. There are often many roads to a destination we may not all take the same road,yet we will likely end up at the same place!

PS It is not my Patcom Bro,its ours!


1 05 2012
Soffitrat (22:39:54) :

wonderdawg. IDKWTHUTA

1 05 2012
Craig Cavanaugh (22:47:49) :

I didn’t know why the Hun ultimately took Athens? : )

2 05 2012
Spud (05:35:19) :

I don’t Know what the hell ur talking about…

2 05 2012
Tom Baugh (00:07:15) :

It is unrealistic to expect someone to get off the couch they’ve been glued to for forty years and suddenly begin sprinting without some edjumacatin along the way. When people get pissed off they need to be able to find people who will light the way for them. Destructive soundbites (from any faction) are easy, truth takes time to teach and understand. Even that truth takes time to understand. Understand?

If “education” is perceived as (or twisted into) “marketing” or “manipulative” rather than “mentoring”, then we are already done. Hello mindless Marxist state. Oh, wait, we’re already there.

Decide amongst yourselves.

2 05 2012
Soffitrat (05:51:45) :

No. We are in a Progressive state. Here is a good explanation of what this entails. I think you’ll find it just as dangerous.

These are the people, sometimes behind the scenes, that are our real enemies. The enemies of all free men. Yet, this is where we are and where we are still headed. Watch and think… These people present a most formidable opponent. There is so much more going on today than just cookin beans over an open pit. Learn these people. Know them. Respect them. Else we be subjected by them.

2 05 2012
Soffitrat (05:53:14) :

And Spud? You got it right. :)

2 05 2012
pickdog (07:39:47) :

great post and discussion. I do agree that we need to be able to “mentor” any newly awakened citizens.

4 thoughts on “AND THAT’S HOW YOU DO THAT…. AND WELL !!!

  1. Local it is here and if we had 20 men per county, I’d go at that level, but since we don’t, it’s the state. We are re-initiating the old A&M Call tree which will be tested monthly as before.

  2. I’ve been awake for a long, just not sure which direction to travel. My age and health limit me to actions that are debatable. I do know I am willing to defend my beliefs to the end. As long as I can crawl I will fight.
    I can be considered as ” The Grey Beard” generation.
    All of you have vast and valuable information, that’s why I read your blogs.

  3. I may not be a Grey Beard, but I have had stated to me a few times at the PatComs and at the summit “I thought you would be older”
    LOL My comment is usually ‘ I am not 60, but there I days where I feel I have lived the life of a 60YO.”
    Keep it local guys, We can only do the big stuff if we are solid on the ground where we stand with those that stand with us. I have some thoughts on Kerodins “Congress” meeting but will post those on my site (and these thoughts will be on a slightly different angle than the ones I have already posted. )

  4. Pingback: reacting against “something wrong” as in the propaganda of organized coercion « power of language blog: partnering with reality by JR Fibonacci

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