WHAT DO WE DO

Favim_com-30213

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/10/02/evexp-woman-suing-over-strip-search-dui-arrest.hln

I am aware this story is not hot off the press………..It is the first time I have seen the video.

Now ask……………………………what do we do? Oath Keepers anyone?

Steve……PR, damn buddy this is some damn fine PR for the Liar Keepers.

Steve | October 2, 2013 at 15:13 | Reply

When and if we get to a post collapse environment, maybe you will get a little opportunity to put your thinking into practice. But we ain’t there yet. Politics is STILL operative, and PR plays a role as well.  Oathkeepers treads a fine line. The SPLC see it in the same light as the klan. Do you? Should you? Should it strive for that?

Calling Stewie….Stewie are you out there? Has anyone seen Stewie? Oath Keepers indeed!

Crickets anyone?

27 thoughts on “WHAT DO WE DO

  1. I’m not commenting in the capacity of an official spokesman or even a member of Oath Keepers, but as a private citizen who knows and supports several local Oath Keepers.

    While the Oath Keepers have made some minor inroads into the ranks of the various militarized local LEOs they are still a very small, almost minute percentage. They are in no way in a position to storm the proverbial “Blue Line” — which includes the management ranks of the politicized LEO departments — to right every wrong (impossible due to shear volume!) or correct every injustice. Those are goals many individual Oath Keeper LEOs are working toward while steadily working with the fellow officers in getting the philosophy accepted — in many cases to just get them to think about it — and recruit new members. It should be noted that in many cases even being identified as member of the Oath Keepers is enough to get a cop ostracized if not fired.

    I personally know some very dedicated Oath Keepers LEOs who are constantly fighting the urge to “storm the Bastille” whenever a local outrage takes place (Google Police Brutality, Denver, CO and you’ll see while not a daily occurrence it does happen way to often). These guys still operate on the now antiquated LEO philosophy of ‘To Serve and Protect’ and are constantly working to reinforce that philosophy with their fellow officers even though their PD management is working to sell the ‘control the masses’ concept being pushed by the feds. Their personal physical presence at various situations/conflicts seems to calm the general attitude as demonstrated by generally no brutality arising from situations they are involved in. Other LEOs — even some of the more aggressive personalities — know that they will not sit back quietly if lines are crossed and will testify honestly about actions taken (a couple of the OKs have so testified in court against fellow officers who have crossed the line and are suffering in silence and internal exile as a result). I can’t speak for every cop who claims to be an Oath Keeper, but I will speak for and defend the ones that I know and can observe their dedication and work.

    I’ll continue to support and work with these guys — I often help with recruitment after the potential indicates they want to know more — rather than crucify them when righteous outrages like your above posted story occur as I believe it more important to have sincere and honest cops in the midst of our swirling PD cesspools than have them commit career — or actual — suicide by raising hell every time a LEO crosses the line. Dismissing them as ‘Liar Keepers’ as you and some of the others in the patriot movement are prone to do is not only counterproductive to the work of the dedicated Oath Keepers working within their own departments, it smacks of hypocrisy when you consider all the chest pounding, threats of personal intervention, no more Wacos, no more Ruby Ridges, etc, and promises of fighting to the death by anonymous keyboard commandos — all of which never takes place…and most likely never will. Talk is cheap, the Oath Keepers I know actually walk the walk risking their skin in the game.

    The new initiative to build local tribes/militias has been building for quite a while. Some have been involved in such activity for an extended period. The Oath Keepers had to build their membership to a size where such activity could be encouraged and supported on a national basis. While there always has been, and continues to exist, a concern that such activity will serve as a lightening rod drawing more governmental and hate groups (i.e., SPLC) attention, that has not been a major deterrent delaying the program — committed membership size has been a determining factor.

    You can keep criticizing and belittling Oath Keepers (I note much such activity is politically based and/or expecting instant miracles to be performed by members of the OK) but I would rather stand, and fall, with those adhering to the philosophy — the Oaths — of the Oath Keepers rather than sit back and grouse that it’s all phony and nothing is happening.

    That’s just my two cents worth…

    • “These guys still operate on the now antiquated LEO philosophy of ‘To Serve and Protect’ and are constantly working to reinforce that philosophy…”

      I believe you, David, and it’s a lovely sentiment. But that’s philosophy, or words, when the real problem is action. It’s not about “storming the Bastille;” it’s about being a direct accomplice to the tyranny. THAT’S the problem and while standing against it is a wonderful thing–that’s pretty much all any of us are doing so far anyway–it’s rather different to be taking part in it, there and then. And that’s what most Oathkeepers are doing, as a matter of physical reality.

      I’m no thief and I’ll be the first to stand against it. But if I were to be an accomplice in some robbery and offer the defense, “But I argue against thievery and I’m trying to see that it stops in the future,” that would ring a bit hollow, don’t you think? Well, that’s the much closer analogy here, not being part of the masses that overruns the Bastille. Uh, they ARE the Bastille in large part—John Boehner and Barack Obama ain’t never gonna lay their hands on anyone.

      I do believe that most LEOs get into it out of a sincere desire to serve and protect just like you say. And you’re right that it’s management and leadership that turn non-sadists into sadists. But so what? Wouldn’t you agree that the time for, “But I’m really against it inside,” is wearing thin, and it’s a bit late for that?

      I guess we’ll see, now that OK is “going operational.” But so far, it’s been great words and little action. Not that they’re obligated to do any action, but THEY put themselves on the front lines. THEY are the ones who supposedly intend to not take part in the bullshit…but the FACT is that they have been, like literally and physically.

      I figure that the past is the past and there’s only now. So we’ll see what we shall see. It’s a great thing when anyone stands intellectually against tyranny, but it’s a whole ‘nuther thing to stand physically against it. One is not the other.

      • To a large degree you’re right — it’s time to do more and more to stop tyranny in it’s tracks. The friends I am talking about are actively trying to persuade other cops to adhere to the fundamental truths of their oaths, their original commitment (in most cases) they entered law enforcement with: to wit, ‘To Serve and Protect,’ not control and beat the shit out of the civilians. They’re doing this almost against the express dictates of their politicized upper management and risking not just their careers but also their lives when standing up to the neo-nazi types who are in an alarming and increasing rate being drawn into the respective police departments.

        Sure, they could take what some call an honorable stance and leave their departments in protest, but they believe — and I concur — that such a move would be cowardice in face of the enemy. They have a much greater chance of influencing other cops from the inside rather from the outside regardless of the personal stress and risk to themselves that they face. Additionally, they get to serve and protect the citizens by their job performance, personal deportment and influence — the very reasons they became cops to begin with.

        I became involved with them through a couple of local retired SFOD-Ds I worked with in the field on a few occasions (I worked for a ‘civilian’ group where I received extensive cross-branch advanced military training along with other specialized trade training). They were working to build civilian training teams with some of the local Oath Keepers — a predecessor so to speak of the current Oath Keeper Organization’s new program. We — meaning the retired military and local Oath Keeper LEOs — have helped build eleven such civilian operational teams to date and have requests for several more (it’s time consuming to build and train such teams to be effective under stress).

        So again, in agreement with you, Jim, these guys are not just “against it inside” (I presume you mean against it intellectually but not actively and ‘go along to get along’ with the corruption), they are against it and actively working both in the belly of the beast to influence it in a positive way, and outside with the civilians to prepare them for a worst case scenario.

        I’m curious, outside of preparing yourself and possibly some close personal friends and family, what are you doing to make a positive impact? Are you standing up (physically present, not just on a keyboard) to the corruption and decay in our society? Are you organizing teams/tribes and helping secure adequate training for them?

        • My question is, if a LEO considers himself an “oath keeper”, then why the hell is he still wearing the badge? A true “oath keeper” would have quit or been fired by now…

          • Those are certainly two valid options, albeit ineffectual and rather immature. On the other hand you have the option of hanging in there, being legal and moral in your own actions while working to be a positive influence on the cesspool of the typical local PD.

            The guys I know have chosen to stay and work to be that positive influence. I know of two instances where they were ripped a few days pay for disobeying what they considered illegal or immoral orders, but they have never been even under suspicion or accusation of illegal activity.

            Personally I would prefer to see more people of integrity in the local PDs rather than less. If everyone faced with adversity picked up their marbles and left the game only the cheats and bullies would remain.

        • “…actively working both in the belly of the beast to influence it in a positive way, and outside with the civilians to prepare them for a worst case scenario.”

          I figure people prepare to the degree they wish. Helping can be a great thing, that’s for sure.

          As to influencing from within the belly of the beast, I wonder if they try to influence their pets as well.

  2. I’ll lay claim to my statement, and reiterate it. Oathkeepers is out there doing something. It’s critics generally do nothing. The name of the organization is OATHKEEPERS. NOT COPHATERS.
    Until recently, the membership was pretty small. In realistic terms, it still is.

    Allies are better than enemies. Turning LEO’s to our side is better than demonstrating why they should not. Having members inside the structure of law enforcement, openly or covertly has value.

    What have you done except heap rhetoric on the pile of empty words that is the ‘patriot’ movement generally? Prepare? OK, that’s useful. But the pot should not call the kettle black. Mr kerodin cont8nualluy uses the phrase about stepping off the porch, but he still has both feet planted firmly upon it. And so do you.

  3. SJCO,

    (captaincrunch)

    I said this once and I will say it again.

    When Oathkeepers start a campaign on their website to talk about “abusive LEO’s” and how to “oust” LEO’s that are convicted or caught on video “abusing their authority” I will have more respect for them (Oathkeepers)

    I personally am beginning to fear and mistrust LEO’s based on all the video’s popping up daily on youtube and other sites showing police beatings. The entire law enforcement system in America is almost as corrupt as “Mexico’s law enforcement”
    What does a LEO need an MRAP for?????
    What does a LEO need military grade body armor and tactical gear for?????
    Why do LEO’s “reach for the Taser” instead of talking someone out of making a “stupid mistake” If you approach someone expecting a “violent encounter” in all likelihood you will get a “violent encounter”

    Our system is collapsing and its only going to get much, much worse.

    • Perfectly reasonable to have negative feelings about bad cops. Knowing what we know now, we have some in D.C. that executed and unarmed woman yesterday.

      That being said, it appears to me that there is some sort of disconnect with people on what constitutes an “oathkeeper”. I find the idea that you cannot be both a cop and an oathkeepers member ridiculous. it’s as if some people never went to the website and bothered to read, or somehow consider enrollment automatic.

      • “I find the idea that you cannot be both a cop and an oathkeepers member ridiculous.”

        On its own, sure. Every instance is unique, after all. IMO the relevant question is, “Can you be an Oathkeeper, be physically present at gross violations of the Constitution, your Oath and just basic human decency, and passively allow those violations to occur?”

        I understand all the practical reasons one might allow that situation to happen, even in spite of any Oath. But I don’t understand it when one goes out of one’s way to redouble down on his Oath. Of course, I admittedly suck at pragmatism and find “Greater Causes” unpersuasive generally. Still, if you can explain how an LEO can make a point to redouble down on his Oath and still stand by when vicious, sadistic (not to mention unconstitutional) actions are taken by his “brothers,” I for one will be grateful.

        • “I find the idea that you cannot be both a cop and an oathkeepers member ridiculous.”

          I find the above statement perfectly credible. How can one claim to be an “oathkeeper” while enforcing unconstitutional laws on firearms; how about so called “free speech zones; perjury in court; turning a “blind” eye when a “brother” in a state sanctioned blue costume with a shiny badge assaults a citizen because said citizen didn’t respond quickly enough to the thugs “orders”?

          I live in a somewhat small town. I have personally witnessed true Oathkeepers, the ones who turned a blind eye to illegal/unconstitutional “laws” on weapons. I have also witnessed the thugs as they committed perjury in the attempt to get that so called “bad guy” off the streets.

          Fuck the “brotherhood of blue (thugs) as they “protect their own” in the outright thuggery, thievery and murder perpetrated on us mere peasants. The true Oathkeepers, of which there are far too few, will find that we “serfs” will have their backs when the time comes, and it is coming. In the meantime; obstruct, destroy or shoot the oathbreakers.

          • I wouldn’t say you paint with a broad brush. I would say you simply throw the paint at the wall, abstract artists style, then try to get people to buy it in the same manner. Similar arguments I have seen so far also lack any sort of precision in the thought process. I can only believe that you think that the last good honest cop was Frank Serpico. Maybe Reed and Malloy, or Friday and Gannon. And I juxtapose the real with the fictional just to see if any of those in cop-autohate mode can tell the difference.

            Certainly, the image of ‘officer friendly’ is increasing on the decline, and it’s the LEO communities own fault. I’ll still reject the idea that every cop is a testicle smashing, house burning, evidence planting gun grabber.

            But i will assert one defect in the modern policeman.

            Their ranks have been infiltrated by cowards. These individuals while declaring themselves part of the thin blue line, put “officer safety” uber alles. If that is the case, they are in the wrong line of work. Don’t choose a dangerous profession and expect your own personal safety to be UN-compromised.

            • It appears it is you who paint with that broad brush. While I provided personal experience of actual people of integrity (oathkeeprs), though I admit it has been few and far between, you avoid the examples of outright oath breaking like the plague. I point out the indisputable and unconstitutional FACTS of the oathbreakers/liars enforcing any laws on firearms, violations of the 1st Amend. (free speech zones) and what do I hear from you, silence. You resort to BS personal insults; ” Similar arguments I have seen so far also lack any sort of precision in the thought process.” yet you won’t dispute or call out the oathbreakers for the liars they appear to be.

              Integrity and honor are traits to be admired. You appear to either be an apologist for those who are lacking or a costumed agent, with a tin badge, gun and a “special license” from .gov to harass and terminate us mere subjects if you are ordered to do so. Which are you?

              • I don’t see you point. Are there leo’s that break thier sworn oath? Sure. Now, show me som leo’s that are Oathkeepers™ members who are actually oathbreakers. Show them to me.

                The problem is that you have chose to conflate active leo members of Oathkeepers™ with the law enforcement community generally. A felon in possession of a firearm is a “gun law” Should Sheriff John Mack not enforce that law?

                What about Sheriffs across the nation who have pledged to NOT enforce any new gun grab laws?

                You simply appear to hate cops generally. I hate cops that abuse the law, piss on the constitution, and murder citizens. I can’t figure out if you are opposing law enforcement, or the entire concept of the law.

                Those people usually wear black and throw bricks through store windows. True enough I hate statists, but i hate anarchists with just as much red hot anger. They both seek the same thing in the end. They both disregard the individual.

                • I don’t know how you couldn’t get BF’s point. It was as clear as could be. Maybe reread it or something.

                  For myself, I can believe that few or no Oathkeepers directly violate their oath first-hand. Though how they make drug arrests, I don’t understand…is it because those are “legal laws” or something? Hell, aren’t they all.

                  Anyway, the part I don’t get is how they can stand and witness gross indecencies, and I know some do, and not do anything about it. Sure I don’t either, but I didn’t vow that a focal part of my life would be to not allow that. I’d like to think I’d help out a victim were I there, but I do make a point to try and not be where there are likely victims.

                  So I’m only asking…how do the OK who witness stuff first-hand, allow it to happen? Simple question; either answer it or don’t. Also,

                  “…anarchists…disregard the individual.”

                  I don’t know where you got this, but it doesn’t sound like any anarchist I’ve heard in the last 30 years. I mean, I’m told that there are “communist anarchists” and such, but every one I’ve ever read or heard in modern times, focuses VERY heavily on the individual. That would be the exact opposite of what you wrote.

                  I’m confident more than a few readers are wondering, “WHY did you write that?” Presently, my personal guess is that you honestly believe it, but I’ve guessed wrong more than once.

                  • “I know some do”

                    No. No you don’t. If you do, put up or shut up.

                    As to the anarchists, they usually roll into Seattle on mayday to throw bricks through store windows. And many of those are sole proprietorships. So how about they start with respecting other people’s property.

                    • Well okay, I’ll leave open the possibility that my “knowledge” is mistaken; I could use the variety anyway.

                      Obviously you haven’t read much anarchist writing, or met very many (what I’m calling) modern anarchists. They’re very, very big on property rights…for many, property is the focus of the whole matter. Even I take “I own myself” as axiomatic.

                      Just curious…do you think that knowledge is mistaken too?

  4. “I can’t figure out if you are opposing law enforcement, or the entire concept of the law.”

    “Law” and Justice are entirely different. Do I oppose the concept of law? No, not when it has its basis in justice. Almost all so called “law enforcement ‘officers'” do not give a flying shit about justice, only enforcement of the tyrants edicts.

    “A felon in possession of a firearm is a “gun law” Should Sheriff John Mack not enforce that law?”

    In short, no, nor should any so called firearm “law” be enforced, or even a law at all. Funny that bring this up as it happens to be one of the examples I stated and personally witnessed.

    I believe in T Jefferson’s definition of “Rightful Liberty”. You appear to worship at the altar of LEO.

  5. “I can’t figure out if you are opposing law enforcement, or the entire concept of the law.”

    “Law” and Justice are entirely different. Do I oppose the concept of law? No, not when it has its basis in justice. Almost all so called “law enforcement ‘officers'” do not give a flying shit about justice, only enforcement of the tyrants edicts.

    “A felon in possession of a firearm is a “gun law” Should Sheriff John Mack not enforce that law?”

    In short, no, nor should any so called firearm “law” be enforced, or even a law at all. Funny that bring this up as it happens to be one of the examples I stated and personally witnessed.

    I believe in T Jefferson’s definition of “Rightful Liberty”. You appear to worship at the altar of LEO.

    • No, I only worship God Almighty.
      And throughout his word he favors sound government and social order.

      And if you are into the concept of allowing the arming of violent felons, you are in muscling in on Eric Holder’s territory. He must be your kind of LEO.

      Judging by your response you must be another of these anarchy promoters, who seem to think they can separate their theories on an intellectual basis from what actual, boots on the ground followers of that theory really do.

      I’m sure you may well thin they simply aren’t doing anarchy right. This is a common excuse. Communists have been using it for years.

      • “And if you are into the concept of allowing the arming of violent felons…..”

        In a free society, if/when someone is deemed to dangerous to be armed in public, keep them caged or execute them. It is immoral and unconscionable to deprive another human of the means of self defense.

        “Judging by your response you must be another of these anarchy promoters…”

        You have a serious reading comprehension disorder. I suggest you seek help.

        • So, you support a scenario in which half the population is locked up, with the other half on guard duty? And how, given your ideology, do you approve of a law enforcement official arresting anyone, much less a justice system which you deride putting them on trial or sentencing them?

          Or do you simply wish to retrace the steps back to torches and pitchforks? Kangaroo courts and drum-head trials? Summary execution by angry mobs?

          “meet the new boss…..”

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